How the fuck can Supernatural’s TPTB be in tune with fandom enough to wink across the fourth wall with intricate, cheeky fandom in-jokes dozens upon dozens of times and create episodes like The Real Ghostbusters and The French Mistake…but still not grasp that every viewer and fan has, for FIVE YEARS NOW, collectively and unanimously rejected spelling Cas with an extra s?
breaking news the winchester suffer from a totally legit disease called temporary casnesia it’s where they randomly forget cas exists for episodes at a time even though they’ve had huge emotional moments with him and established how much they care for him a few days before it’s all v tragic
call 1800-our-writers-are-shit-with-consistency to help us find a cure
Season Nine can backpedal as hard as it likes on the Profound Bond but they can’t erase this shit.
This HAPPENED.
Sometimes I think Season Nine is the producers punishing us for catching this stuff, and for the people who kept watching when it became obvious before intended reveal ending up switching from 18-25 straight male target audience to 18-35 female and mostly LGBTA.
Sometimes I think it’s the network for taking that valuable overmarket share that they rarely get the big dollar ad space chunk of.
Sometimes I think the producers are just punishing us for liking this when it wasn’t supposed to happen this way and the story got away from them as all stories do.
…All the history between them seemed to have vanished. No mention of Purgatory, no talk of heaven, Castiel’s loss, Dean’s struggle to forgive him, their final work together to finish Castiel’s second trial, which ended in his and the rest of heaven’s downfall…it all seemed to have been wiped away, replaced by tasteless jokes about non-consensual sex and pointless talks about the case of the week. —
Ok this is talking about destiel but I feel like its true of THE ENTIRE PAST PLOT like every important plot point- hell, the apocalypse, sam’s soullessness, purgatory - is repressed and glossed over and they never mention it and it doesn’t seem to affect their decisions or lead to any noticeable character development
Imagine you’re a kid and aaaaall week your parents have been hinting at a special trip
Nothing overt but little things, like when a commercial for Disneyland comes on they go ‘wow wouldn’t it be fun to go there?’ and ‘maybe we’ll go there someday!’ and you get super excited!
and you take a peek at their computer and it looks like they’re on the site for Disneyland! and was that a brochure for Disneyland on the kitchen counter? It had to have been!
You try asking outright and they never say ‘yes’ or ‘no’, they just smile vaguely and say ‘maybe, wait and see’
and then you’re fucking SURE of it when you get in the car with them
and then the car stops and the door opens and
LOL NOPE YOU’RE AT THE DENTIST
and they laugh at you for even thinking you were going to Disneyland
tous-les-coups(.)tumblr(.)com/post/67989661647/no-big-deal-ahhhhh-robbie-about-the-cut-i-love I don't really know how to interpret this. I think many of us assumed the "I love you" became "I need you" and that Robbie has been writing with a romantic interpretation in mind, but now it looks like it was strictly familial love? And he says his intentions don't matter, but Jeremy's do and he's the one who added the family line. So, is it possible it's really just been platonic all along?
Alright. So the post I’ve been asked to look at and give my thoughts on is here. This post is based on a personal conversation between tous-les-coups (who helps run the fandom (de)Bunker) and Robbie Thompson about some of their posts/activity. He was offering up information about 8x17 to help them with their rumors. What I’m to take away from this is that the original line was not “We’re family. I love you.” it was simply, “I love you.”
Now. Let’s look at some facts. We know that the “I love you” was going to make it to the final cut. It’s not like Jeremy called in the middle of filming and ordered it changed. We know Jensen and Misha were filming because we have 2 shots with the line in the gag reel. We also know that Jensen was having a tough time with it since he felt (and I agree with this)that Dean would not be able to verbalize his feelings to Cas in that way. Someone, probably Thomas Wright, the director, made the call to Jeremy that it wasn’t going to work out. Jeremy then changed it to “We’re family” officially. And then somewhere along the way “We need you. I need you.” was added, probably by Jensen to maintain the “tone” of what the scene was meant to convey.
Let us not forget that the last time the word “family” was uttered between Dean and Cas it was Cas telling Dean: “You’re not my family, Dean. I have no family.” Beforehand, it was Dean telling Cas he was “like family” which isn’t the same as “You are family”. Dean was, in my opinion, ready to die in 8x17, by Cas’ hand. He was trying to break through to Cas to save him, and in doing so save himself. All I can say is that If my husband was brainwashed and beating me to death I’d say the exact same things Dean was meant to say: “I love you.”, “You don’t want to do this.”, “This isn’t you.”. But Dean is not me. He can’t say “I love you” because he is so repressed. So it was changed.
At the end of the day Carver is responsible for EVERYTHING THAT HITS OUR SCREENS. This includes “We need you. I need you.” End of story. The climax of the 8x17 crypt scene remains a romantic narrative, no matter which way you slice it. 8x11-8x16 featured no less than 3 people controlled to kill/die in which the person responsible for breaking the “spell” had romantic feelings for the person controlled. RULE OF 3. Carver’s stamp of approval was over all that.
As far as INTENT goes…
This is trickier. Robbie’s writing suggests he very much SUPPORTS romantic Destiel. It makes me a little sad to think that he thinks his intentions don’t matter, but ultimately Robbie is right, because screenwriting and television production is different.
Show running > individual writer’s intent/actor’s intent.
And this is why (as a meta writer) I basically dread all cons. Carver’s intentions are what matter most (to the overall story). I just happen to think they are one in the same. Remember this is also the man who gave Adam the 8x18 “Cowboy Junkies” idea, gave Misha a note to tell him to act like a “jilted lover” in 9x06 and approved Robert Berens to mirror the infamous bar scene over the same episode (something outta Carver’s own script) with Dean and Cas.
So as Robbie was saying, he could not speak towards intent of the dialogue that made the cut (and help out the deBunker with that rumor) because he could not speak for Carver (notice how he didn’t voice his own intent with the original “I love you” either, as is probably per his contract). Robbie also just contradicted himself too. He had no problem stating the intentions of the deadly duo (9x03 non-con was unintentional!, something Carver had his stamp of approval on mind you), but yet he says he can not speak for the intentions of Carver for 8x17… This is why I side-eyed his 9x03 remarks about intention so hard. Because it doesn’t work that way. He honestly can’t speak for either. And once again we are left with “PR IS NOT SHOW RUNNING”.
I’ll tell you this. I’ve come to accept one absolute truth in these past few months of being in the Supernatural fandom in the meta writing community, and one truth only: WE ARE NEVER GONNA HEAR JEREMY CARVER EXPLICITLY TELL US HIS INTENTION WITH DEAN/CAS UNTIL IT IS (OR ISN’T) ON OUR SCREENS SO ANY QUESTIONS ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION OF INTENT ARE ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS. I believe that if it (explicit romantic Destiel) wasn’t something (currently or EVER) being considered we’d be given a “NO” by now. We can show our support all day long, but asking anyone who can’t speak for Carver has to STOP because it’s just not going to happen (and yes, I realize that tous-les-coup and deathbycoldopen weren’t questioning Robbie he was volunteering info so this is in no way directed at either one of these lovely ladies). And even IF Carver says “no” let’s remember the X-files. That show runner said the same thing about Mulder and Scully (no romance/canon intended) for YEARS and it still ended up happening. The story lead them there. Stuff like that just HAPPENS sometimes, writer intent be damned.
So in answer to your actual question anon: I don’t think it was platonic all along because I’m looking at the whole of 8x11-8x17’s STRUCTURE. Like I said. Rule of 3 with the narrative parallels. Just like in season divine. 3 people dumped between 9x06&9x07: all with romantic feelings towards the one doing the dumping. These are the parallels given to Dean/Cas. It’s not an accident, it is a STRUCTURE. It’s a refection of Carver’s intent. All he’s done so far IMO since he took hold of the show is show us why Dean/Cas can’t be together yet: Cas is an angel and Dean is repressed. He has then proceeded to knock all that down. Cas became human and Dean is directly on course to break codependency with Sam (and in doing so will be able to express his feelings, namely romantic ones, better).
Cas’ problem is “the problem with angels” which was in season 8 reflected in the narrative mirrors of Naomi and Benny. Naomi was “the problem with angels” personified and she was killed as Cas was made human. Benny also was a victim of his “nature” that he couldn’t overcome. Even without the deleted scene, Benny was implied to have “fell off the wagon”. His nature was against him as was Cas’…
“What broke the connection?”
“I don’t know”
Ezekiel is “codependency” personified and (soon) he will be ejected (killed, physically or metaphorically) by Dean as he is made back into a part of the boy who was left looking out a window on a farm wanting to go to a dance. These two things: “the problem with angels” and “Dean is repressed” were always what made me so MAD about shipping Dean/Cas, why I believed it would never happen on screen. And Carver has made an entire narrative that gets rid of both of these problems. It’s like he could read my mind or something. That’s why I can be so positive about Dean/Cas. Carver, in my opinion, has done nothing but tore down things I believed were in the way of them believably expressing mutual romantic interest in one another.
I love hearing the intent of anyone, actors, writers, show runners, but at the end of the day, “The author is dead”. As a meta writer I analyze the CANON, because that’s what counts and the CANON tells me that Dean/Cas is written as a romantic narrative (with frequent platonic language due to the characterization of Dean Winchester). I won’t pretend to understand everything that goes through Jeremy Carver’s head *cries forever over 9x03* and I have no idea what will happen after codependency with Sam is broken, but for right now the setup is there. It’s looking right at us. The question is: Will Carver move them into checkmate or not?
You know what I’m saying? I’m saying this is bullshit. If a sixteen year old Dean Winchester came face to face with a werewolf like that, he wouldn’t be alive. The werewolf wouldn’t grab him from the forearms. He or she would bite him and claw him till he was dead or too weak to move.
So yeah, this isn’t a werewolf. That’s just John.
Friendly reminder that Dean didn’t ever personally encounter a werewolf until Season 2, 11 years after this episode.
Oh hi there. Just wanted to show you guys something:
